The Church of Scientology is taking a beating today.
First, former member Paul Haggis wrote a scathing letter renouncing the religion, and now a video of spokesman Tommy Davis walking out of an interview with Martin Bashir on 'Nightline,' is making the rounds on the Internet.
Davis was offended when Bashir asked questions about the popular celebrity religion's beliefs. WatchFreakout @ 3:40
"Do you believe that the Galactic Emperor called Xenu brought his people to earth 75 million years ago and buried them in volcanoes?" Bashir asked.
"Martin, I'm not going to discuss the disgusting perversions of Scientology beliefs that can be found out commonly on the Internet and be put in the position of talking about things that ... talking about things that are so fundamentally offensive to Scientologists to discuss," Davis replied.
But the 'Nightline' anchor pressed on. "Well, I have the burden of my own journalistic responsibility that I bring to this meeting and I hope that I've been appropriately respectful of you in my asking of the questions."
"Well you haven't to the degree that the question you asked me you know by virtue of the fact that it's been made very clear in other media entities that it's something that we considered offensive. And it is in violation of my religious beliefs to talk about them," Davis answered.
Bashir tried to ask again, but was interrupted. "I'm going to stop you, if you're going to ask me that question again and you're going to repeat things about volcanoes and this kind of thing and so on and so forth, I will stand up and walk out, Martin. Because what you are doing by doing that, is you are intentionally asking me things which you know I find offensive and you're insisting on asking me of them, so I'm asking you one more time," the Church's spokesman said.
"Mr. Davis, I'm not trying to offend anybody. I'm just trying to ask you a series of question about the public faith that you have. I'm not trying to mock you, I'm trying to understand what your beliefs are. You've explained what auditing is, you've explained the growth of the church. You've done all of those things. I am asking you, in the context of those questions, is it true that L. Ron Hubbard said that understanding the origins of the human race as described through Xenu and the Intergalactic Emperor," Bashir was unable to finish his question because at this point, Davis tore off his microphone and walked off the set.
Uh no Mormons do not believe blacks are cursed though many early in the church did take this stance LIKE THE ENTIRE REST OF THE BODY OF CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!! It has been discussed and debunked many times as a valid interpretation of the biblical verses that people cite to back up this belief. Any member of the church who tries to teach these things would be stopped corrected and asked to apologize to the congregation in question.
As for the Jehova's Witnesses Talking too much about the devil explain how. Should we not be raising the voice of warning to the world you know just like the bible says to do. How is talking about a being many are starting to deny the existence of, even in the most mainstream protestant churches a bad thing? Try to know something about a faith you put down.
Isn't it interesting that Tommy Jones would not answer the question about Xenu and volcanoes because he found it "offensive?" It's simple-- either Scientology teaches that belief, or it does not. If that is a belief of Scientology, then why would Tommy Davis find it offensive, and not be willing to discuss it? (How many spokespersons for other religions are not willing to discuss what they believe?) If Scientology does NOT teach what Martin Bashir asked about, then why wouldn't Tommy Davis simply say that Martin Bashir is wrong, and ask him where he got his information? Another point to consider, that I don't believe Martin Bashir got into, is this-- Scientology is the ONLY "religion" that requires its members to pay money to learn its teachings. Other religions accept offerings, and some might even put pressure on its members to tithe, but they will still provide free literature and answer questions about what they believe, FOR NO MONEY. Scientology is a scam, plain and simple.
AMEN! Scientology is a business of selling snake oil. I will admit there is no such thing as a perfect religion or church. I love my religion and my faith has helped me through many a bad episode in my life. If someone wants to ask me about my faith, I would never be offended. I would be more than happy to tell them and show them.
You are right, Frank! The point others miss repeatedly is that L. Ron Hubbard was a sci fi author, not a religious leader. His books were written and published as works of fiction, science fiction, not as religious works. Following Scientology as a religion is akin to following Gone With The Windism or Lord of the Ringsism...fiction, not religion...I suppose anyone can believe anthing and call it a religion but it is important to realize L. Ron Hubbard was a "B" level sci fi writer and presented Dianetics as a work of fiction, not fact!
I have been keeping up on the development of Scientology for over 25 years, ever since my best friend dropped out of high school and joined the “Sea Org”, which is the elite arm of Scientology. He ended up literally having to “jump ship” in order to get away, after having signed up for one million years of service in exchange for all of the auditing it would take to become “clear” and reach the level of a “thetan”. Yes, it is all crazy science fiction nonsense. The real danger of Scientology now that wasn't present years ago is that it is now a multi-billion dollar empire with vast real estate holdings all over the world, with enough influence to attract the likes of Tom Cruise and John Travolta and these other idiot celebrities looking for meaning in their meaningless lives. The people at the top of the Scientology food chain know that this “religion” is based on a load of crock, but they're not about to admit it and jeopardize the wealth and power Scientology has brought them.
Thank you very much Frank. It was a simple yes or no. Everyone beware of the cult, disguised as a religion for tax purposes, call "Scientology". It is in fact based on L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction novel.
Could not agree with you more, Frank. I don't understand how that is "offensive", when it was part of the founder's beliefs? All "religions" have some interesting stories about creation, why run from that? Each individual can have their own interpretation. That's fine. His wacko behavior has only confirmed for me that it's a cult.
You all are being HYPOCRITICAL!! Who decides what is "offensive"? Just because I do not MEAN, or ATTEMPT, or DESIRE to be offensive with the word "ni**er", that does not make it OK to use it, KNOWING that the black person next to me is offended!! Bahir was told, TWICE, that the question was offensive. His motive for asking the question is irrelevant! To continue to ask the question was rude and I do not blame Davis for getting up and leaving. Personally, I thought he conducted himself respectfully. NO - I am not a Scientologist. I do not give any credibility to its values and beliefs. But, I do respect the rights of others who might be a Scientologist! If we must respect the sensitivities of Blacks, we must respect the sensitivities of others. To behave differently is to be hypocrite!!
No, Scientology is not a "scam" .... it's much worse than that. From their cult beginnings to their tax deductible "religious" status they have conspired against many people. Though they are no longer a cult, they still are causing problems for your everyman. There are whole websites devoted to tell the truth about Scientology, there is a reason that the majority of internet users know who and what they really are, on the internet it is harder to cover your tracks.
Don't refer to Sciontology as a religon - it is not. . .it's a CULT plain and simple. Weak minded people get sucked into cults and those are the ones that sults pray upon.
First of all, that is THE worst analogy I think I have ever come across. Mr. Bashir is a JOURNALIST; his motive for asking a question is always relevant (they're "supposed to be" truth-seekers; but the ineffectual nature of journalism is another topic completely).
Mr. Jones also AGREED to this interview; he knew specific questions were going to be asked, offensive or not, and that there would be an expectation for him to answer them. Yet he still made this ridiculous scene for no reason; all he had to do was say "I find that question offensive, such statements are untrue and inaccurate." They clearly were NOT inaccurate and he refused to simply say that as well.
What's more is if you're going to sell something (especially religious beliefs) I think there's a certain obligation to disclose what the beliefs are and what the practices will entail upon joining this club-like group especially when there's money involved.
How in the world you tried to turn this into a civil rights issue I don't know. I suppose if that's the case then yes, Mr. Jones had every right to respond in this manner; it does nothing more than negatively impact the image of Scientology and its followers therefore preventing them from obtaining new members. But in that case Mr. Bashir had just as much every right to ASK that question and receive an honest answer without someone throwing a temper tantrum.
So Mr. reidgator, I take OFFENSE that you would even attempt to compare this outburst (a.k.a. tantrum) to the use of the N-word; an idiotic attempt at best to make your point. I also really think you need to read up on the definition of Hypocrisy as well; don't throw around big words you clearly don't understand.
Mr. Jones: don't make public appearances refusing to answer questions that inquiring minds would like to have settled as truth or false. If so offended, put the matter to rest and squash all the rumor mills with what actually takes place in this ridiculous elitist club for the mentally perturbed and just admit to what those of us with half a brain are already aware of!
You are right my brother. Every religion is a scam based on the writings of it's scam artists. The truth is 1961, and the moneys taken for the religions usually pay for the Cadillac the preacher, pastor or talker owns. They all talk crap on Sundays, but how many of them will prove their faith by picking up a hitchhiker on Monday thru Saturday. Religion is nothing but a writer making sense of the truth that was written before him that is usually acted out on Sundays. Since we know all religions are fake, we should give religious people a break. Because we will either fly when we die or we will pay at the funeral home. Right
I agree with you Frank, and I can say from first hand experience that Scientology rips off people royally. They give celebrities a different experience because they use them to give validity to their "religion" to lay people, who may be swayed by the celebrity status. Just like a diet program would use a celebrity spokesperson. Once involved, they encourage you to not associate with people who are not scientologists. They have their own "lingo", and you become comfortable being only around them. I would be labeled an SP (suppresive person), or PTS (potential trouble source), for making these comments, and you would be instructed to stay far away from me, even if I was your spouse or other family member - or try to "fix" those people with Scientology too. They espouse some positives to get people in on the lower levels, but it is a lot of mind control after that. My family lost a lot of money to Scientology, and I would admonish anyone to stay away from it. My final straw was when I was at a meeting at that old hotel (Fort Harrison)they've taken over as one of their headquarters in downtown Clearwater, FL on one of the top floors. I guess my husband and I were considered safe to invite to something like this. They put a picture of L. Ron Hubbard up on a screen and everyone stood up and raised their arm almost in a "Heil Hitler" gester. We followed suit because quite honestly, we were a little afraid not to on the top floor of that hotel. But after that, my husband and I both agreed that it was definitely and cult that we had gotten way to involved with.
Wow, SCIENTOLOGY most CERTAINLY teaches those things about Xenu and the intergalactic stuff on their Uppoer Operating Thetan Levels!!! It is the biggest scam, and it was created by a hack science fiction writer who hung out on the fringes of the RAND Corp., and other think tank groups of the 40's and 50's. He created the dianetics concept from a theory he 'heard' hanging around these think tank groups. This whole thing is purely an inexact 'science' and is fraudulent and it is spiritually DEAD!!! Peoples lives are shipwrecked because of it and there are many thousands of people across the globe who will attest to that. This spokesman is totally brainwashed and programed to be offended and antagonistic ( a word they often use when they are busted for being liars and charlatans.)and trust me...he had a LOT of auditing after walking off that set. They are fundamentally programed to not feel anything, and that is the state of 'clear' that the celebs pay such ridiculous amounts of money for. The Scn. want total control of an individual's life and access to their finances. Don't get me started on them, but it is a dangerous cult which will get brought down from within. Just watch!!!
it was inappropriate for him to be asked that. he explained very clearly that he would be offended if the reporter asked; when the reporter repeated the question again after that, he was clearly trying to offend him. if you tell someone that a certain action will offend you and they insist on doing it anyway, then they are intentionally offending you, regardless of what they say. besides that, if the alleged rumor about this particular set of tenets of his religion state that talking about it is sacrilege, why does anyone expect him to discuss it on television? anyone who says this reporter was acting appropriately is the true nut. for example, if the bible's depiction of Christ's resurrection was expected to be kept secret and known only to the highest clergy, would it be appropriate to ask the pope if he believes Christ rose again in a television interview? the reporter was way out of line with his question, and Davis' response was entirely appropriate and reasonable, regardless of how you feel about scientology or any religion.
(1) If my analogy is the worst you've seen, then, you've been quite reclusive. You need to get out of your cave more.
(2) My analogy is 100% corect. I was not comparing the use of "ni**er" to a question. I raised the question, "Who decides what is offensive?" (I noted that you failed to answer that question!! Not too bright are ya!!) I then pointed out most of us decline to use a word that blacks find offensive even if WE may not find it offensive. Again, the issue here is RESPECT for the other person. But, then, I guess you are too stupid to recognize that!
(3) The journalists motive is NOT relevant if he knows the question will offend the other person.
(4) I never mentioned anything about "civil rights". You must have pulled that out of your @zz.
(5) No - YOU need to look up the definition for hypocrisy. My analysis was "spt on"!
(6) Lastly, you wrote "all he had to do was say "I find that question offensive, such statements are untrue and inaccurate".
Hey C - He did you dumbf*^&!!!! Go back and watch the video. Davis told Bashir TWICE that the question was offensive and that the statements were inaccurate. Your post was offensive to the intelligence on this blog!
Theodora,GOD BLESS YOU for getting away from them! They kicked me out of the communications course and the problems of work course because I was reading and meditating on the BIBLE!!! I was happy to leave, but they tortured me with endless phonecalls, with monotone voiced recruits that would say, "So, when are you going to complete your course process?" They bombarded me with multiple mailings and I had to go to the postmaster and report them until it stopped. I am thankful to have extricated myself from them, I was a definite PTS ( potential trouble source). I watched people who had been course instructors just vanish from the Hollywood Celebrity Center! Such vicious and hateful people who were screwing their way up the 'bridge'. They were all duped. My former band mate, who will remain nameless, distanced herself from me and has not found success the way SCN and Dianetics promised. They have annihilated her personality and creativity. Beware of SCN and Dianetics!!! It is a big bunch of crap!!!
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Uh no Mormons do not believe blacks are cursed though many early in the church did take this stance LIKE THE ENTIRE REST OF THE BODY OF CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!! It has been discussed and debunked many times as a valid interpretation of the biblical verses that people cite to back up this belief. Any member of the church who tries to teach these things would be stopped corrected and asked to apologize to the congregation in question.
As for the Jehova's Witnesses Talking too much about the devil explain how. Should we not be raising the voice of warning to the world you know just like the bible says to do. How is talking about a being many are starting to deny the existence of, even in the most mainstream protestant churches a bad thing?
Try to know something about a faith you put down.
Isn't it interesting that Tommy Jones would not answer the question about Xenu and volcanoes because he found it "offensive?" It's simple-- either Scientology teaches that belief, or it does not. If that is a belief of Scientology, then why would Tommy Davis find it offensive, and not be willing to discuss it? (How many spokespersons for other religions are not willing to discuss what they believe?) If Scientology does NOT teach what Martin Bashir asked about, then why wouldn't Tommy Davis simply say that Martin Bashir is wrong, and ask him where he got his information? Another point to consider, that I don't believe Martin Bashir got into, is this-- Scientology is the ONLY "religion" that requires its members to pay money to learn its teachings. Other religions accept offerings, and some might even put pressure on its members to tithe, but they will still provide free literature and answer questions about what they believe, FOR NO MONEY. Scientology is a scam, plain and simple.
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AMEN! Scientology is a business of selling snake oil. I will admit there is no such thing as a perfect religion or church. I love my religion and my faith has helped me through many a bad episode in my life. If someone wants to ask me about my faith, I would never be offended. I would be more than happy to tell them and show them.
You are right, Frank! The point others miss repeatedly is that L. Ron Hubbard was a sci fi author, not a religious leader. His books were written and published as works of fiction, science fiction, not as religious works. Following Scientology as a religion is akin to following Gone With The Windism or Lord of the Ringsism...fiction, not religion...I suppose anyone can believe anthing and call it a religion but it is important to realize L. Ron Hubbard was a "B" level sci fi writer and presented Dianetics as a work of fiction, not fact!
I have been keeping up on the development of Scientology for over 25 years, ever since my best friend dropped out of high school and joined the “Sea Org”, which is the elite arm of Scientology. He ended up literally having to “jump ship” in order to get away, after having signed up for one million years of service in exchange for all of the auditing it would take to become “clear” and reach the level of a “thetan”. Yes, it is all crazy science fiction nonsense. The real danger of Scientology now that wasn't present years ago is that it is now a multi-billion dollar empire with vast real estate holdings all over the world, with enough influence to attract the likes of Tom Cruise and John Travolta and these other idiot celebrities looking for meaning in their meaningless lives. The people at the top of the Scientology food chain know that this “religion” is based on a load of crock, but they're not about to admit it and jeopardize the wealth and power Scientology has brought them.
Thank you very much Frank. It was a simple yes or no. Everyone beware of the cult, disguised as a religion for tax purposes, call "Scientology". It is in fact based on L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction novel.
Could not agree with you more, Frank. I don't understand how that is "offensive", when it was part of the founder's beliefs? All "religions" have some interesting stories about creation, why run from that? Each individual can have their own interpretation. That's fine. His wacko behavior has only confirmed for me that it's a cult.
You all are being HYPOCRITICAL!! Who decides what is "offensive"? Just because I do not MEAN, or ATTEMPT, or DESIRE to be offensive with the word "ni**er", that does not make it OK to use it, KNOWING that the black person next to me is offended!!
Bahir was told, TWICE, that the question was offensive. His motive for asking the question is irrelevant!
To continue to ask the question was rude and I do not blame Davis for getting up and leaving. Personally, I thought he conducted himself respectfully.
NO - I am not a Scientologist. I do not give any credibility to its values and beliefs. But, I do respect the rights of others who might be a Scientologist!
If we must respect the sensitivities of Blacks, we must respect the sensitivities of others.
To behave differently is to be hypocrite!!
No, Scientology is not a "scam" .... it's much worse than that. From their cult beginnings to their tax deductible "religious" status they have conspired against many people. Though they are no longer a cult, they still are causing problems for your everyman. There are whole websites devoted to tell the truth about Scientology, there is a reason that the majority of internet users know who and what they really are, on the internet it is harder to cover your tracks.
Don't refer to Sciontology as a religon - it is not. . .it's a CULT plain and simple. Weak minded people get sucked into cults and those are the ones that sults pray upon.
To reidgator:
First of all, that is THE worst analogy I think I have ever come across. Mr. Bashir is a JOURNALIST; his motive for asking a question is always relevant (they're "supposed to be" truth-seekers; but the ineffectual nature of journalism is another topic completely).
Mr. Jones also AGREED to this interview; he knew specific questions were going to be asked, offensive or not, and that there would be an expectation for him to answer them. Yet he still made this ridiculous scene for no reason; all he had to do was say "I find that question offensive, such statements are untrue and inaccurate." They clearly were NOT inaccurate and he refused to simply say that as well.
What's more is if you're going to sell something (especially religious beliefs) I think there's a certain obligation to disclose what the beliefs are and what the practices will entail upon joining this club-like group especially when there's money involved.
How in the world you tried to turn this into a civil rights issue I don't know. I suppose if that's the case then yes, Mr. Jones had every right to respond in this manner; it does nothing more than negatively impact the image of Scientology and its followers therefore preventing them from obtaining new members. But in that case Mr. Bashir had just as much every right to ASK that question and receive an honest answer without someone throwing a temper tantrum.
So Mr. reidgator, I take OFFENSE that you would even attempt to compare this outburst (a.k.a. tantrum) to the use of the N-word; an idiotic attempt at best to make your point. I also really think you need to read up on the definition of Hypocrisy as well; don't throw around big words you clearly don't understand.
Mr. Jones: don't make public appearances refusing to answer questions that inquiring minds would like to have settled as truth or false. If so offended, put the matter to rest and squash all the rumor mills with what actually takes place in this ridiculous elitist club for the mentally perturbed and just admit to what those of us with half a brain are already aware of!
You are right my brother. Every religion is a scam based on the writings of it's scam artists. The truth is 1961, and the moneys taken for the religions usually pay for the Cadillac the preacher, pastor or talker owns.
They all talk crap on Sundays, but how many of them will prove their faith by picking up a hitchhiker on Monday thru Saturday.
Religion is nothing but a writer making sense of the truth that was written before him that is usually acted out on Sundays.
Since we know all religions are fake, we should give religious people a break. Because we will either fly when we die or we will pay at the funeral home. Right
I agree with you Frank, and I can say from first hand experience that Scientology rips off people royally. They give celebrities a different experience because they use them to give validity to their "religion" to lay people, who may be swayed by the celebrity status. Just like a diet program would use a celebrity spokesperson.
Once involved, they encourage you to not associate with people who are not scientologists. They have their own "lingo", and you become comfortable being only around them. I would be labeled an SP (suppresive person), or PTS (potential trouble source), for making these comments, and you would be instructed to stay far away from me, even if I was your spouse or other family member - or try to "fix" those people with Scientology too.
They espouse some positives to get people in on the lower levels, but it is a lot of mind control after that. My family lost a lot of money to Scientology, and I would admonish anyone to stay away from it.
My final straw was when I was at a meeting at that old hotel (Fort Harrison)they've taken over as one of their headquarters in downtown Clearwater, FL on one of the top floors. I guess my husband and I were considered safe to invite to something like this. They put a picture of L. Ron Hubbard up on a screen and everyone stood up and raised their arm almost in a "Heil Hitler" gester. We followed suit because quite honestly, we were a little afraid not to on the top floor of that hotel. But after that, my husband and I both agreed that it was definitely and cult that we had gotten way to involved with.
Wow, SCIENTOLOGY most CERTAINLY teaches those things about Xenu and the intergalactic stuff on their Uppoer Operating Thetan Levels!!! It is the biggest scam, and it was created by a hack science fiction writer who hung out on the fringes of the RAND Corp., and other think tank groups of the 40's and 50's. He created the dianetics concept from a theory he 'heard' hanging around these think tank groups. This whole thing is purely an inexact 'science' and is fraudulent and it is spiritually DEAD!!! Peoples lives are shipwrecked because of it and there are many thousands of people across the globe who will attest to that. This spokesman is totally brainwashed and programed to be offended and antagonistic ( a word they often use when they are busted for being liars and charlatans.)and trust me...he had a LOT of auditing after walking off that set. They are fundamentally programed to not feel anything, and that is the state of 'clear' that the celebs pay such ridiculous amounts of money for. The Scn. want total control of an individual's life and access to their finances. Don't get me started on them, but it is a dangerous cult which will get brought down from within. Just watch!!!
DAVIS...HIS NAME IS TOMMY DAVIS!! LOL..heheh..ya'll started me doing the SAME THING..lol..Tom Jones is a SINGER
it was inappropriate for him to be asked that.
he explained very clearly that he would be offended if the reporter asked; when the reporter repeated the question again after that, he was clearly trying to offend him.
if you tell someone that a certain action will offend you and they insist on doing it anyway, then they are intentionally offending you, regardless of what they say.
besides that, if the alleged rumor about this particular set of tenets of his religion state that talking about it is sacrilege, why does anyone expect him to discuss it on television?
anyone who says this reporter was acting appropriately is the true nut.
for example, if the bible's depiction of Christ's resurrection was expected to be kept secret and known only to the highest clergy, would it be appropriate to ask the pope if he believes Christ rose again in a television interview?
the reporter was way out of line with his question, and Davis' response was entirely appropriate and reasonable, regardless of how you feel about scientology or any religion.
Responding to C:
(1) If my analogy is the worst you've seen, then, you've been quite reclusive. You need to get out of your cave more.
(2) My analogy is 100% corect. I was not comparing the use of "ni**er" to a question. I raised the question, "Who decides what is offensive?" (I noted that you failed to answer that question!! Not too bright are ya!!) I then pointed out most of us decline to use a word that blacks find offensive even if WE may not find it offensive. Again, the issue here is RESPECT for the other person. But, then, I guess you are too stupid to recognize that!
(3) The journalists motive is NOT relevant if he knows the question will offend the other person.
(4) I never mentioned anything about "civil rights". You must have pulled that out of your @zz.
(5) No - YOU need to look up the definition for hypocrisy. My analysis was "spt on"!
(6) Lastly, you wrote "all he had to do was say "I find that question offensive, such statements are untrue and inaccurate".
Hey C - He did you dumbf*^&!!!! Go back and watch the video. Davis told Bashir TWICE that the question was offensive and that the statements were inaccurate.
Your post was offensive to the intelligence on this blog!
Beliefs that can't be defended, are beliefs not worth holding.
They pay money--lots of it--to find out that crap about Xenu, then get offended that others found it out for free.
Reply
Theodora,GOD BLESS YOU for getting away from them! They kicked me out of the communications course and the problems of work course because I was reading and meditating on the BIBLE!!! I was happy to leave, but they tortured me with endless phonecalls, with monotone voiced recruits that would say, "So, when are you going to complete your course process?" They bombarded me with multiple mailings and I had to go to the postmaster and report them until it stopped. I am thankful to have extricated myself from them, I was a definite PTS ( potential trouble source). I watched people who had been course instructors just vanish from the Hollywood Celebrity Center! Such vicious and hateful people who were screwing their way up the 'bridge'. They were all duped. My former band mate, who will remain nameless, distanced herself from me and has not found success the way SCN and Dianetics promised. They have annihilated her personality and creativity. Beware of SCN and Dianetics!!! It is a big bunch of crap!!!