Why Jay Leno and David Letterman Hate Each Other

By Mike Ryan Posted Jan 27th 2010 07:45PM

David Letterman looked like "either Dinty Moore or Paul Bunyan's son." Or so recalls Jay Leno from his 1996 book on his first meeting with Letterman in 1975. It was a fateful encounter that formed an initial partnership and friendship. But now, in retrospect, it's a tragic relationship in which the repercussions from the fallout between the two are still being felt 35 years later, changing late night television forever. And, unknowingly, altering the fate of a then-12 year-old boy living in Brookline, Massachusetts -- Conan O'Brien. Letterman, on a January 19 episode of Late Show, referred to Jay Leno in a discussion about the current late night television battle as "vintage Jay." What does "vintage Jay" mean, and why does Letterman feel this way? Allow us to break down exactly why Jay and Dave have come to despise one another, both in real life and for our television enjoyment.

Letterman, not surprisingly, was never completely comfortable as a stand-up comic. His initial dream was never to host 'The Tonight Show.' What he wanted was to write for 'The Tonight Show' and his idol, Johnny Carson. In William Knoedelseder's fantastic account of the 1970's stand-up comedy scene, 'I'm Dying Up Here,' he recounts those initial early days of Leno and Letterman's friendship. Letterman was impressed with how comfortable Leno controlled the stage; in turn, Leno thought Letterman possessed the most original material on the comedy scene. The two were soon hired as a team by future husband and wife Jerry Kushnick and Helen Gorman (hold this thought) to write current 'Good Times' star Jimmie Walker 15 jokes a week.

On April 9, 1979, Letterman guest-hosted 'The Tonight Show' for his first time (Carson was hosting the Academy Awards that evening). This was 12 years before Carson would announce his retirement but, in Carson's mind, he had just appointed the next host of 'The Tonight Show.' Letterman would guest host the show 50 more times.

Letterman and Leno would remain friendly over the next few years. Leno would often be booked as a guest on 'Late Night with David Letterman' but, as far as anyone seemed to know, that was the extent of their friendship through the 1980s. In 1987, after Carson had a falling out with then-permanent guest host Joan Rivers, Leno was picked to replace her. This move never wavered Carson's feelings on Letterman's eventual role as the host.

As documented in Bill Carter's book, 'The Late Shift,' Leno's manager, Helen Kushnick (née Gorman; Letterman's former boss), made a power play for 'The Tonight Show' once Carson announced his retirement. An extremely loyal Letterman desperately wanted the show, but would never go behind his friend Leno's back. Leno had no problem making secret deals and, influenced by Kushnick (who was so unpopular, Leno soon had to fire her), proceeded. NBC had their reservations about the lanky, off-beat, quirky comedian hosting his show in New York (sound familiar?) and eventually decided Leno would make the extra effort to make the affiliates happy -- something Letterman had really no interest in doing -- and Leno positioned himself with the network brass as the heir apparent. So, in 1992, with no mention of Carson on his first show, Leno became the host of 'The Tonight Show.' Letterman and Leno would never speak again.

Carson became a deeply private person, granting only two interviews between leaving 'The Tonight Show' and his death in 2004. It's telling Carson never appeared on Leno's show, but his last television appearance was a walk-on appearance on Letterman's competing CBS show, 'Late Show with David Letterman.'

If there's any wonder why, in 2010, it appeared that so many in the industry sided with Conan in this latest late night mess: It's true Leno made his corporate bosses happy -- ratings were sky high -- but this wasn't the case with his fellow comics. Again, as Knoedelseder accounts, Carson was famous for using his 'Tonight Show' platform to launch the career of young comics; Letterman continued this tradition, and Leno did not -- stating the network "didn't think they drew numbers." This didn't endear Leno to the fellow comics he rose through the ranks with, as well as new comics that never had a chance of being on this new incarnation of 'The Tonight Show.' Leno had a history as the guy that conceded to make everyone happy as far back as the late 1970s comics' strike versus The Comedy Store (the basis of Knoedelseder's book). Leno, who was the first comic to voice his displeasure with the lack of pay, was known as sympathetic to owner Mitzi Shore (Yes, Pauly's mother); he was the "let's just make her happy," voice of the group. This was a strike Letterman gave his full support to, even picketing outside The Comedy Store the very same night after he hosted The Tonight Show' for the first time.

It's not surprising that Letterman can see "vintage Jay" repeating and it's even less surprising he would jump to the defense of O'Brien. It should be noted that when the story of Letterman's workplace infidelity broke, Conan refrained from making any jokes about the incident while Leno had a field day. Letterman's full quote during a taping of 'The Late Show' on Jan 19 is telling, "I've known Jay Leno for, what? Thirty Five Years? A long, long time. We used to buddy around in the old days and what we're seeing now is vintage Jay. And it's enjoyable for me to see this. It's like, 'hey, there he is; there's the guy I know.'" Considering Leno returns head-to-head versus Letterman in March, this fight is nowhere near over -- only Letterman's no longer pulling his punches... vintage Jay or not.

Tags: david letterman, DavidLetterman, jay leno, JayLeno

Comments

(359)

Wednesday 27 January

By LizSchulte

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Very interesting. I always wondered where their mutual animosity started.

By Ken

I think it`s pretty obvious why they dislike each other.Jay screwed Dave out of the tonight show years ago forcing him to move to CBS and now Jay screws Conan out of the tonight show.Jay`s a manipulator and now Jay`s trying to do the same to the public.Jay has been exposed for what he really is..He`s like Rosie O Donoll with a big chin.

By Stephen

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Hey Mike Ryan, where do you get your facts from? Its seems that you were a fly on the wall in so many places. How about letting us know the names of who can back you up about the people you trash in your article. It seems you have taken some public knowledge facts and embellished them to fit your own personal opinion (pro Letterman). Bottom line, The Tonight Show is like a car that NBC owns. Just like your car, you get to decide who drives it. First, NBC let Steve Allen their car, The Tonight Show. Then Jack Parr drove it. Then Johnny Carson drove it. There were a slew of guest drivers throughout its history (google The Tonight Show for a list.) They were all great for different reasons. However, no matter how long they drove it or how great they were (and Johnny was great), none of them owned the car. So, Johnny Carson did not get to choose who would drive the car that he never owned. NBC did and they chose Leno because they felt he would be a better driver than Letterman (and he is) and it showed in his ratings. Leno won the ratings war shortly after Letterman's show aired until the day he was replaced by Conan. Then Letterman began to win the ratings war. Of course Letterman is unhappy and bitter! Not only did Jay get The Tonight Show instead of him he won the ratings war too. Now, that Letterman is finally winning the ratings war, Jay will soon be back in the race. Poor Letterman. He should just shut up and stop acting like a child having a temper tantrum when he doesn't get something he wants. NBC was stupid to think that Conan would be better than Jay at 11:30, but at least they fixed their mistake. (That car analagy was for you Jay!)

By k

All makes sense to me. Letterman and Conan: two guys who believe that being off beat is funny. To me, that is plain arrogance. "If I say it, it is funny. If I do it, it is hilarious. If you don't agree, you're just some hay seed from Nebraska." A masturbating bear? Give me a break. That's class?

Thursday 28 January

By waagtod

Hey ken, by your reasoning Conan "screwed" Jay out of the the Tonite show in the first place.Isn't turnabout fair play? Dave is amusing, Jay is funny.

By Tester

Stephen's car analogy is right on. One that has not been mentioned here or elsewhere is who owns NBC! At the time the Leno > Conan transition was conceived, GE owned NBC. The GE management style created by Jack Welch was to "prune" the work force top-to-bottom to make room for new hires and promote rising stars. Jay didn't want to give up the Tonight show to Conan but Jay was viewed as having reached his peak and it was time to "prune" him to make room for the rising star Conan. I guess NBC has now pruned Conan and grafted Jay back onto the tree.

By lyle

The business is driven by ratings and rating alone. The ONLY reason Conan lost The Tonight Show is because of his less than great ratings. Stop trying to pick a scape goat.

Monday 08 February

By nos2001

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its not jays fault conhan lost half the viewers. conhan belonged on a saturday morning show as a reincarnation of pee wee herman.......letterman?--just another pathetic lefting loon...

By Ralph

I seem to remember Letterman once calling Leno the funniest guy on the planet.

By Dick

At one time he was really funny. Now, just average.

By annatenner

Leno is just like my Tickle Me Plant. You never know how it will react One minute the leaves are wide open. Then after being Tickled the leaves instantly fold and even the branches droop. Minutes later it reopems. Months later it flowers. You may know someone that is like a Tickle Me Plant. See the video it was fun
to grow and I give them away for the holidays.
Just search Tickle Me Plant

By rayderdude1

David Letterman is a cry baby he makes funny sex jokes of palins teenage daughter and alot of other people and when jay takes a punch at letterman he crys

By paul

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Jokes about palins daughter was "funny" according to Letterman. The jokes about Lettermans infidelity with his interns were funnier.

By Travis Bickle

There is no such word as "alot" ,but I expect no less of a plebeian leno fan.

By John

Apparently people don't have a problem with "vintage Jay". He continues to beat Letterman.

By Mike

....and more people buy McDonald's hamburgers than any other hamburger in the world!!

Does that mean McDonald's makes the best hamburgers?

By frank

bottom line ...... jay leno is funny and letterman is not

By Lindsay

I very much disagree

By Gary

Jay Leno is funny and Dave is not? That's hilarious, considering that Leno copies what Dave did on NBC on Late Night as often as he can. Letterman was the originator on his Late Night show on NBC. Very unique and funny. He did things that no one else did. My how you forget so quickly.

By ric

The only thing funny about Jay Leno is that you actually find him funny. If I laugh once during Jay's monologue, I consider that a good night for him. Most of the time me and my husband look at each other like who exactly thinks this material is funny? I guess we have an answer.

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