David Letterman looked like "either Dinty Moore or Paul Bunyan's son." Or so recalls Jay Leno from his 1996 book on his first meeting with Letterman in 1975. It was a fateful encounter that formed an initial partnership and friendship. But now, in retrospect, it's a tragic relationship in which the repercussions from the fallout between the two are still being felt 35 years later, changing late night television forever. And, unknowingly, altering the fate of a then-12 year-old boy living in Brookline, Massachusetts -- Conan O'Brien. Letterman, on a January 19 episode of Late Show, referred to Jay Leno in a discussion about the current late night television battle as "vintage Jay." What does "vintage Jay" mean, and why does Letterman feel this way? Allow us to break down exactly why Jay and Dave have come to despise one another, both in real life and for our television enjoyment.
Letterman, not surprisingly, was never completely comfortable as a stand-up comic. His initial dream was never to host 'The Tonight Show.' What he wanted was to write for 'The Tonight Show' and his idol, Johnny Carson. In William Knoedelseder's fantastic account of the 1970's stand-up comedy scene, 'I'm Dying Up Here,' he recounts those initial early days of Leno and Letterman's friendship. Letterman was impressed with how comfortable Leno controlled the stage; in turn, Leno thought Letterman possessed the most original material on the comedy scene. The two were soon hired as a team by future husband and wife Jerry Kushnick and Helen Gorman (hold this thought) to write current 'Good Times' star Jimmie Walker 15 jokes a week.
On April 9, 1979, Letterman guest-hosted 'The Tonight Show' for his first time (Carson was hosting the Academy Awards that evening). This was 12 years before Carson would announce his retirement but, in Carson's mind, he had just appointed the next host of 'The Tonight Show.' Letterman would guest host the show 50 more times.
Letterman and Leno would remain friendly over the next few years. Leno would often be booked as a guest on 'Late Night with David Letterman' but, as far as anyone seemed to know, that was the extent of their friendship through the 1980s. In 1987, after Carson had a falling out with then-permanent guest host Joan Rivers, Leno was picked to replace her. This move never wavered Carson's feelings on Letterman's eventual role as the host.
As documented in Bill Carter's book, 'The Late Shift,' Leno's manager, Helen Kushnick (née Gorman; Letterman's former boss), made a power play for 'The Tonight Show' once Carson announced his retirement. An extremely loyal Letterman desperately wanted the show, but would never go behind his friend Leno's back. Leno had no problem making secret deals and, influenced by Kushnick (who was so unpopular, Leno soon had to fire her), proceeded. NBC had their reservations about the lanky, off-beat, quirky comedian hosting his show in New York (sound familiar?) and eventually decided Leno would make the extra effort to make the affiliates happy -- something Letterman had really no interest in doing -- and Leno positioned himself with the network brass as the heir apparent. So, in 1992, with no mention of Carson on his first show, Leno became the host of 'The Tonight Show.' Letterman and Leno would never speak again.
Carson became a deeply private person, granting only two interviews between leaving 'The Tonight Show' and his death in 2004. It's telling Carson never appeared on Leno's show, but his last television appearance was a walk-on appearance on Letterman's competing CBS show, 'Late Show with David Letterman.'
If there's any wonder why, in 2010, it appeared that so many in the industry sided with Conan in this latest late night mess: It's true Leno made his corporate bosses happy -- ratings were sky high -- but this wasn't the case with his fellow comics. Again, as Knoedelseder accounts, Carson was famous for using his 'Tonight Show' platform to launch the career of young comics; Letterman continued this tradition, and Leno did not -- stating the network "didn't think they drew numbers." This didn't endear Leno to the fellow comics he rose through the ranks with, as well as new comics that never had a chance of being on this new incarnation of 'The Tonight Show.' Leno had a history as the guy that conceded to make everyone happy as far back as the late 1970s comics' strike versus The Comedy Store (the basis of Knoedelseder's book). Leno, who was the first comic to voice his displeasure with the lack of pay, was known as sympathetic to owner Mitzi Shore (Yes, Pauly's mother); he was the "let's just make her happy," voice of the group. This was a strike Letterman gave his full support to, even picketing outside The Comedy Store the very same night after he hosted The Tonight Show' for the first time.
It's not surprising that Letterman can see "vintage Jay" repeating and it's even less surprising he would jump to the defense of O'Brien. It should be noted that when the story of Letterman's workplace infidelity broke, Conan refrained from making any jokes about the incident while Leno had a field day. Letterman's full quote during a taping of 'The Late Show' on Jan 19 is telling, "I've known Jay Leno for, what? Thirty Five Years? A long, long time. We used to buddy around in the old days and what we're seeing now is vintage Jay. And it's enjoyable for me to see this. It's like, 'hey, there he is; there's the guy I know.'" Considering Leno returns head-to-head versus Letterman in March, this fight is nowhere near over -- only Letterman's no longer pulling his punches... vintage Jay or not.
Did any of you read about how the halls had to be cleared everytime King Dave walked by.....and most of all no eye contact with King Dave.... I guess that when you say King Dave was classy...you actually mean that he is the upper class and the people who serve "under him" sometimes literally...are the lower class.
No, we did NOT read about "King Dave"..... most likely because it was never news. Not a reliable source, perhaps? Watch what you quote - it says a lot about you.
Jay certainly could've made this all right by stepping down, with his millions, and admitting defeat. He is NOT the ratings master that he thought he was, or the 10pm show would still be on.
Read about how he and his manager screwed Dave out of the Tonight show job........it's all right there in the article above us!
Leno funnier than Letterman?? Are the the same people taking who watch shows like American Idol and the Bachelor? Leno plays it safe and his humor is pretty mundane. Letterman has more of an edge. Maybe most people don't get that??
I totally agree with you. Leno is something my grandmother would watch. Letterman's okay, he's funny sometimes, but as years have gone by, he doesn't make me laugh like he used to. Conan, on the other hand, was quite funny and I'm disappointed about what happened to him...Jay really displayed his "true self" in this situation.
It's not just about having a job, like Letterman kept saying. It's all about NBC making business decisions to get better ratings. They wanted to keep Leno with NBC while Conan became the new host of the Tonight Show. Even though Leno's ratings on his new show went down, the show was still making money for NBC. It was the affiliates that were in an uproar over their 11:00 newscasts dying in the ratings. At the same time, Conan's ratings were half of what Leno's were when he left and Letterman came out on top. NBC felt that it would cost them less money to let Conan go rather than keep him on as a ratings loser. Anyway, even if Leno retired it didn't guarantee that Conan would do any better against Letterman, so what's the problem with NBC keeping Leno on as part of the network and giving he back his old show? Admittedly, NBC made a mess of things, but that's NBC's fault not Leno's.
Letterman is getting just what he deserves. No ratings and now he wants to cry. Letterman is cruel and his humor is so hard to find it barely exists. His schtick never has been funny and he is right where nobody will ever watch him, CBS. Stay there with Katie Couric...yall both deserve to just dry up and blow away. You can't win viewers with humor and you won't get them by crying so just hush and slide back under that rock you came out from.
I'm not a Jay fan, never have been. He says some funny things, but I much prefer Dave's quirky wit. I don't think Jay has acted with much class since his "retirement," taking over a full hour of primetime screwed over a lot of people trying to make a living, on screen and off, and he knew it. It wasn't good, it drove away viewers, and Conan got the blame. Never was a Jay fan, sure as hell not going to start now.
You cannot tell me that, had Leno been dipping his manhood in the occasional writer or intern, and been caught at it that Letterman would have let this ride. (Witness, if you will, his jokes about other celebrity dalliances.) I've always felt that Letterman's humor was a bit meaner than Lenos; I find both shows appealing (if I ignore the annoying Paul Schafer and that band). But Letterman needs to let go of all that bitterness that has gone on way too long before he blows another heart valve.
Leno and Letterman should both be dropped off the air. They are a disgrace to late night and I am sure that Carson, Paar and Allen wish they could send a lighting bolt into both studios to get rid of these men who have spoiled late night with their abusive behavior. Oh for the good old days when late night was entertainment, not a battlefield.
It really doesn't matter who is funnier (I personally think Letterman is), the fact is Jay Leno only thinks of himself. And though he is entitled to do that,I find it very despicable. I will never ever watch Leno again. There is a professional way to go about business and Jay didn't do that. Conan could have had the 12:05 time slot, but out of respect for the Tonight Show and it's history, he chose not to. He put the show before himself. Jay puts himself before everything. He doesn't care who he screws or destroys. At least that's the way it looks to me.
I very much enjoyed Jay and watched him pretty often up until his end on the Tonight Show. I never really cared for Conan's style but I did watch him from time to time. Lettermen was okay, but I'm a Cali native, so I prefered the West Coast stuff to the East. All that to say, I really don't plan to what either Jay or Dave now. They have all acted like a bunch of over paid idiots and I'm so turned off now.
I like Jay Leno. I think NBC made a mistake when they pulled him! I think everyone has made a mistake that hurts someone sometime somewhere! I think he will be great and be back on top! I think Dave is a pompus ass who is just jealous because even against the means of Jimmy Kimmel he still can pull in the top place! Poor Dave maybe he needs to go sleep with more women to keep his ego intact!!
The only people who think Jay is funnier than David are those with very unsophisticated senses of humor. David's clever; Leno's lines are for children and his sense of fair play is definitely out of whack.
As has already been stated, both are rich old men, so don't worry about them one bit. I've always liked Letterman better myself. the one I felt bad for is Conan. he's the one who got a**ed out for Leno. F*ck Jay Leno.
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Did any of you read about how the halls had to be cleared everytime King Dave walked by.....and most of all no eye contact with King Dave....
I guess that when you say King Dave was classy...you actually mean that he is the upper class and the people who serve "under him" sometimes literally...are the lower class.
Vintage King Dave...for sure.
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No, we did NOT read about "King Dave"..... most likely because it was never news. Not a reliable source, perhaps? Watch what you quote - it says a lot about you.
Jay certainly could've made this all right by stepping down, with his millions, and admitting defeat. He is NOT the ratings master that he thought he was, or the 10pm show would still be on.
Read about how he and his manager screwed Dave out of the Tonight show job........it's all right there in the article above us!
Leno funnier than Letterman?? Are the the same people taking who watch shows like American Idol and the Bachelor?
Leno plays it safe and his humor is pretty mundane.
Letterman has more of an edge. Maybe most people don't get that??
Reply
I totally agree with you. Leno is something my grandmother would watch. Letterman's okay, he's funny sometimes, but as years have gone by, he doesn't make me laugh like he used to. Conan, on the other hand, was quite funny and I'm disappointed about what happened to him...Jay really displayed his "true self" in this situation.
It's not just about having a job, like Letterman kept saying. It's all about NBC making business decisions to get better ratings. They wanted to keep Leno with NBC while Conan became the new host of the Tonight Show. Even though Leno's ratings on his new show went down, the show was still making money for NBC. It was the affiliates that were in an uproar over their 11:00 newscasts dying in the ratings. At the same time, Conan's ratings were half of what Leno's were when he left and Letterman came out on top. NBC felt that it would cost them less money to let Conan go rather than keep him on as a ratings loser. Anyway, even if Leno retired it didn't guarantee that Conan would do any better against Letterman, so what's the problem with NBC keeping Leno on as part of the network and giving he back his old show? Admittedly, NBC made a mess of things, but that's NBC's fault not Leno's.
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Letterman is getting just what he deserves. No ratings and now he wants to cry. Letterman is cruel and his humor is so hard to find it barely exists. His schtick never has been funny and he is right where nobody will ever watch him, CBS. Stay there with Katie Couric...yall both deserve to just dry up and blow away. You can't win viewers with humor and you won't get them by crying so just hush and slide back under that rock you came out from.
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I find this whole Late Night drama to be wildly fascinating. Great read.
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I'm not a Jay fan, never have been. He says some funny things, but I much prefer Dave's quirky wit. I don't think Jay has acted with much class since his "retirement," taking over a full hour of primetime screwed over a lot of people trying to make a living, on screen and off, and he knew it. It wasn't good, it drove away viewers, and Conan got the blame. Never was a Jay fan, sure as hell not going to start now.
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Dave needs to be put back on at 10:00 AM, where he can discuss with his guests incontinence, menopause, and Dave's recipe for never fail cornbread.
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You cannot tell me that, had Leno been dipping his manhood in the occasional writer or intern, and been caught at it that Letterman would have let this ride. (Witness, if you will, his jokes about other celebrity dalliances.) I've always felt that Letterman's humor was a bit meaner than Lenos; I find both shows appealing (if I ignore the annoying Paul Schafer and that band). But Letterman needs to let go of all that bitterness that has gone on way too long before he blows another heart valve.
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Leno and Letterman should both be dropped off the air. They are a disgrace to late night and I am sure that Carson, Paar and Allen wish they could send a lighting bolt into both studios to get rid of these men who have spoiled late night with their abusive behavior. Oh for the good old days when late night was entertainment, not a battlefield.
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It really doesn't matter who is funnier (I personally think Letterman is), the fact is Jay Leno only thinks of himself. And though he is entitled to do that,I find it very despicable. I will never ever watch Leno again. There is a professional way to go about business and Jay didn't do that. Conan could have had the 12:05 time slot, but out of respect for the Tonight Show and it's history, he chose not to. He put the show before himself. Jay puts himself before everything. He doesn't care who he screws or destroys. At least that's the way it looks to me.
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Mike really you feel superior because you find David funnier??? Thats pathetic.
I very much enjoyed Jay and watched him pretty often up until his end on the Tonight Show. I never really cared for Conan's style but I did watch him from time to time. Lettermen was okay, but I'm a Cali native, so I prefered the West Coast stuff to the East. All that to say, I really don't plan to what either Jay or Dave now. They have all acted like a bunch of over paid idiots and I'm so turned off now.
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Who really cares?? They're both filthy rich and most of the time aren't that funny!
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I like Jay Leno. I think NBC made a mistake when they pulled him! I think everyone has made a mistake that hurts someone sometime somewhere! I think he will be great and be back on top! I think Dave is a pompus ass who is just jealous because even against the means of Jimmy Kimmel he still can pull in the top place! Poor Dave maybe he needs to go sleep with more women to keep his ego intact!!
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Jay and Dave need to grown up and move on.
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The only people who think Jay is funnier than David are those with very unsophisticated senses of humor. David's clever; Leno's lines are for children and his sense of fair play is definitely out of whack.
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As has already been stated, both are rich old men, so don't worry about them one bit. I've always liked Letterman better myself. the one I felt bad for is Conan. he's the one who got a**ed out for Leno. F*ck Jay Leno.
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yea 40 million worth idoit