David Letterman looked like "either Dinty Moore or Paul Bunyan's son." Or so recalls Jay Leno from his 1996 book on his first meeting with Letterman in 1975. It was a fateful encounter that formed an initial partnership and friendship. But now, in retrospect, it's a tragic relationship in which the repercussions from the fallout between the two are still being felt 35 years later, changing late night television forever. And, unknowingly, altering the fate of a then-12 year-old boy living in Brookline, Massachusetts -- Conan O'Brien. Letterman, on a January 19 episode of Late Show, referred to Jay Leno in a discussion about the current late night television battle as "vintage Jay." What does "vintage Jay" mean, and why does Letterman feel this way? Allow us to break down exactly why Jay and Dave have come to despise one another, both in real life and for our television enjoyment.
Letterman, not surprisingly, was never completely comfortable as a stand-up comic. His initial dream was never to host 'The Tonight Show.' What he wanted was to write for 'The Tonight Show' and his idol, Johnny Carson. In William Knoedelseder's fantastic account of the 1970's stand-up comedy scene, 'I'm Dying Up Here,' he recounts those initial early days of Leno and Letterman's friendship. Letterman was impressed with how comfortable Leno controlled the stage; in turn, Leno thought Letterman possessed the most original material on the comedy scene. The two were soon hired as a team by future husband and wife Jerry Kushnick and Helen Gorman (hold this thought) to write current 'Good Times' star Jimmie Walker 15 jokes a week.
On April 9, 1979, Letterman guest-hosted 'The Tonight Show' for his first time (Carson was hosting the Academy Awards that evening). This was 12 years before Carson would announce his retirement but, in Carson's mind, he had just appointed the next host of 'The Tonight Show.' Letterman would guest host the show 50 more times.
Letterman and Leno would remain friendly over the next few years. Leno would often be booked as a guest on 'Late Night with David Letterman' but, as far as anyone seemed to know, that was the extent of their friendship through the 1980s. In 1987, after Carson had a falling out with then-permanent guest host Joan Rivers, Leno was picked to replace her. This move never wavered Carson's feelings on Letterman's eventual role as the host.
As documented in Bill Carter's book, 'The Late Shift,' Leno's manager, Helen Kushnick (née Gorman; Letterman's former boss), made a power play for 'The Tonight Show' once Carson announced his retirement. An extremely loyal Letterman desperately wanted the show, but would never go behind his friend Leno's back. Leno had no problem making secret deals and, influenced by Kushnick (who was so unpopular, Leno soon had to fire her), proceeded. NBC had their reservations about the lanky, off-beat, quirky comedian hosting his show in New York (sound familiar?) and eventually decided Leno would make the extra effort to make the affiliates happy -- something Letterman had really no interest in doing -- and Leno positioned himself with the network brass as the heir apparent. So, in 1992, with no mention of Carson on his first show, Leno became the host of 'The Tonight Show.' Letterman and Leno would never speak again.
Carson became a deeply private person, granting only two interviews between leaving 'The Tonight Show' and his death in 2004. It's telling Carson never appeared on Leno's show, but his last television appearance was a walk-on appearance on Letterman's competing CBS show, 'Late Show with David Letterman.'
If there's any wonder why, in 2010, it appeared that so many in the industry sided with Conan in this latest late night mess: It's true Leno made his corporate bosses happy -- ratings were sky high -- but this wasn't the case with his fellow comics. Again, as Knoedelseder accounts, Carson was famous for using his 'Tonight Show' platform to launch the career of young comics; Letterman continued this tradition, and Leno did not -- stating the network "didn't think they drew numbers." This didn't endear Leno to the fellow comics he rose through the ranks with, as well as new comics that never had a chance of being on this new incarnation of 'The Tonight Show.' Leno had a history as the guy that conceded to make everyone happy as far back as the late 1970s comics' strike versus The Comedy Store (the basis of Knoedelseder's book). Leno, who was the first comic to voice his displeasure with the lack of pay, was known as sympathetic to owner Mitzi Shore (Yes, Pauly's mother); he was the "let's just make her happy," voice of the group. This was a strike Letterman gave his full support to, even picketing outside The Comedy Store the very same night after he hosted The Tonight Show' for the first time.
It's not surprising that Letterman can see "vintage Jay" repeating and it's even less surprising he would jump to the defense of O'Brien. It should be noted that when the story of Letterman's workplace infidelity broke, Conan refrained from making any jokes about the incident while Leno had a field day. Letterman's full quote during a taping of 'The Late Show' on Jan 19 is telling, "I've known Jay Leno for, what? Thirty Five Years? A long, long time. We used to buddy around in the old days and what we're seeing now is vintage Jay. And it's enjoyable for me to see this. It's like, 'hey, there he is; there's the guy I know.'" Considering Leno returns head-to-head versus Letterman in March, this fight is nowhere near over -- only Letterman's no longer pulling his punches... vintage Jay or not.
One correction. Leno and his manager Kushnick made a power play for the Tonight Show BEFORE Johnny announced his retirement. Leno got an offer from CBS and they threatened to take it unless Jay got signed as Carson's successor. Not wanting to lose him, NBC signed him behind Carson and Letterman's back. During the negotiations, Kushnick badmouthed Dave to NBC and said he was mentally unstable and not suited for the Tonight Show. After being signed, Leno's manager started to try to push Carson off the air by planting phony stories in the papers about NBC wanting Carson to retire so that Leno could attract younger viewers. When NBC gave a luke warm denial and Carson found out Leno's people planted the story and got signed as the future host behind his back, Carson blindsided NBC by quiting the show.
So it's okay with you that Conan did the same thing to Leno? Five years ago, he cried to NBC that he would quit if he was not given the Tonight Show. Leno is not even 60. Why should he be forced to retire? Kudos to Leno for having the brains and the balls to deal with it. It really doesn't matter who you like best. Conan could have the biggest fan club in history, but the truth is, they were not tuning in to watch his show. NBC made a mistake by not bringing Jay's prime time show in as a mid-season replacement where it might have performed much better against reruns. To be honest, the talk show format is just not prime time material. I think it is pretty funny that people have gotten so emotional about this issue. It's just TV folks!
I do blame Connan. I do not find him to be an honorable person. I remember his begging and crying for that job. It seems to me he was a dismal failure as a replacement for Leno. It's just a shame to see a grown man acting like a spoiled child. As for Letterman, his life and performances leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Letterman is so p l a y e d. Desperate for guest, I caught Rachel "the carpet cleaner" while flipping through channels last week. Jay's the pooh.....take a whiff!
Just wanted to thank you for a well-researched and interesting article. I'm old enough to remember the first Tonight Show drama but I didn't know how disappointed Carson was with the decision. Great read!
As talented as Jay Leno is, it's been open knowledge behind the scenes that he's a corporate, yes-man "car salesman" type that puts satisfying the top dogs ahead of anything or anyone else around him. Oh, wait a minute......... I forgot Leno WAS a car salesman!!!
I spoke with Jay Leno about a motorcycle I had for sale, it was purchased by a popular musician.... Leno acted like a jerk ! but then he does the same thing on TV !
Jay is funny? He is funny looking perhaps.He is also a backstabbing self serving hypocrite as far as I can see. He screwed his then buddy Dave(seems kind of obvious by the way Carson avoided him) and once he let the show go to Conan ,he screwed him asap.Deception is NOT funny. I hope Dave and Conan get the last laugh.
Jay Leno let his manager take the brunt of everyones anger when he basically stole the tonight show. He really stabbed her in the back too. Leno sucks.
I have never thought a lot of either Letterman or Leno. However I do have more respect for Leno than Letterman, who I think is absent of any moral content. I think Letterman was no 3 of the late nite shows. Too bad Letterman wasn't sent home.
So it was OK for Leno to screw over his good friend, Letterman, to get the Tonight Show even though he would have never been in that position in the first place if Dave hadn't put him on his show on a regular basis?
If Letterman is so morally bankrupt, why didn't he take the Tonight Show when NBC offered it to him when Leno's ratings tanked? Even though the Tonight Show was Letterman's childhood dream, he passed on that offer because he didn't want to be responsible for pushing Leno off the Tonight Show. Years later when Letterman wasn't happy with CBS, he turned down a lucrative offer from ABC because he didn't want to be responsible for pushing Ted Kopple off TV. So called good guy Jay Leno could learn a thing or two about business ethics from amoral David Letterman.
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One correction. Leno and his manager Kushnick made a power play for the Tonight Show BEFORE Johnny announced his retirement. Leno got an offer from CBS and they threatened to take it unless Jay got signed as Carson's successor. Not wanting to lose him, NBC signed him behind Carson and Letterman's back. During the negotiations, Kushnick badmouthed Dave to NBC and said he was mentally unstable and not suited for the Tonight Show. After being signed, Leno's manager started to try to push Carson off the air by planting phony stories in the papers about NBC wanting Carson to retire so that Leno could attract younger viewers. When NBC gave a luke warm denial and Carson found out Leno's people planted the story and got signed as the future host behind his back, Carson blindsided NBC by quiting the show.
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Give me a break,"it wasnt me it was my manager" how niave are you,you wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn.
So it's okay with you that Conan did the same thing to Leno? Five years ago, he cried to NBC that he would quit if he was not given the Tonight Show. Leno is not even 60. Why should he be forced to retire? Kudos to Leno for having the brains and the balls to deal with it. It really doesn't matter who you like best. Conan could have the biggest fan club in history, but the truth is, they were not tuning in to watch his show. NBC made a mistake by not bringing Jay's prime time show in as a mid-season replacement where it might have performed much better against reruns. To be honest, the talk show format is just not prime time material. I think it is pretty funny that people have gotten so emotional about this issue. It's just TV folks!
I've said it before and I'll say it again; LENO NEEDS TO STOP STEALING LETTERMAN'S BITS!!!!!!!!!!
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I do not believe either can afford to hate anyone...they are both detestable....
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I do blame Connan. I do not find him to be an honorable person. I remember his begging and crying for that job. It seems to me he was a dismal failure as a replacement for Leno. It's just a shame to see a grown man acting like a spoiled child. As for Letterman, his life and performances leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.
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Letterman is so p l a y e d. Desperate for guest, I caught Rachel "the carpet cleaner" while flipping through channels last week. Jay's the pooh.....take a whiff!
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This is all interesting, but the NETWORKS make the decisions on who to put in the position, not the hosts.
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Just wanted to thank you for a well-researched and interesting article. I'm old enough to remember the first Tonight Show drama but I didn't know how disappointed Carson was with the decision. Great read!
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As talented as Jay Leno is, it's been open knowledge behind the scenes that he's a corporate, yes-man "car salesman" type that puts satisfying the top dogs ahead of anything or anyone else around him. Oh, wait a minute......... I forgot Leno WAS a car salesman!!!
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I spoke with Jay Leno about a motorcycle I had for sale, it was purchased by a popular musician.... Leno acted like a jerk ! but then he does the same thing on TV !
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who cares, they are both rich! Everyone has a choice, so choose your late night entertainment!
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Neither Leno or Letterman is funny. NBC is stupid to think they are. That's right, NBC thinks that people are stupid. Their probably right.
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LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THERE, THEIR, AND THEY'RE, YOU TARD.
Jay is funny? He is funny looking perhaps.He is also a backstabbing self serving hypocrite as far as I can see. He screwed his then buddy Dave(seems kind of obvious by the way Carson avoided him) and once he let the show go to Conan ,he screwed him asap.Deception is NOT funny. I hope Dave and Conan get the last laugh.
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Jay Leno let his manager take the brunt of everyones anger when he basically stole the tonight show. He really stabbed her in the back too. Leno sucks.
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David Letterman over Jay Leno any day. Doing the right thing does count with some people in this country....not very many, but enough.
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I have never thought a lot of either Letterman or Leno. However I do have more respect for Leno than Letterman, who I think is absent of any moral content. I think Letterman was no 3 of the late nite shows. Too bad Letterman wasn't sent home.
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So it was OK for Leno to screw over his good friend, Letterman, to get the Tonight Show even though he would have never been in that position in the first place if Dave hadn't put him on his show on a regular basis?
If Letterman is so morally bankrupt, why didn't he take the Tonight Show when NBC offered it to him when Leno's ratings tanked? Even though the Tonight Show was Letterman's childhood dream, he passed on that offer because he didn't want to be responsible for pushing Leno off the Tonight Show. Years later when Letterman wasn't happy with CBS, he turned down a lucrative offer from ABC because he didn't want to be responsible for pushing Ted Kopple off TV. So called good guy Jay Leno could learn a thing or two about business ethics from amoral David Letterman.
Hey "Stephen" - it's "ANALOGY" - not "analagy"...
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